Life With A Baby - Going crazy with sleep training

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:43 PM

Message # 248925

Linda

I need HELP!

My super active 18 months old daughter just refuses to sleep. It is taking her 1-2 hrs to fall asleep. I am trying to to help her learn to fall asleep on her own as well as sleep early. I can't do "the cry it out" method so I have been trying the gentle approach, but I am going nuts. She still does cry , but I go in to reassure her. VERY VERY OFTEN. She is not sleeping through the night. She is down to nursing 2x/day (1 before bed and 1 in the middle of the night). She is being weaned off.

This is the schedule that I have been trying to follow for a week now (prior to this I was trying something else for about 2wks).

7:30 wake-up/breakfast

9/9:30 snack

11am lunch

11:30 start nap routine( story, cuddle, sound wave music)

11:45am in crib

At this point, she will be jumping and bouncing, singing out loud, calling me, calling daddy, cry, and etc...

Oh did I mention that she will also have a bowel movement. Since starting the sleep training, she has decided that 99.9999999% of the time she will ONLY have her bowel movements when she is put in her crib to fall alseep. Sometimes she will repeat this 2x. Because of this bowel movement I frequently have to go in and check. There have been times that she may have calmed down, but then I end up going in. How do I manage this part? I have no choice. It is unpredictable the exact time that she will do this, so I frequently have to go in. I am trying to teach her to say pooh pooh when she does. I

Sometimes she just won't take her nap.

Since she usually takes 1hr to fall asleep, I will leave her in the crib for this length of time and if she is not sleeping (most often NOT) I have been trying to take her out for a 15-20 minutes stroller walk. This walk helps with her nap, but the weather is getting colder.

1-2pm usually naps 90% of the time on her own (1-4hrs sometimes). I hate this, but I have been trying to wake her up at 4/4:30. I really hate waking her up when she is sleeping in the morning and during her nap.

4:30/4:45pm dinner

6/6:15pm snack

6:30/6:45 start bath and bed time routine.

7-7:45pm in crib

At this point 99.999% of the time, she is jumping, bouncing, cry, singing and etc..

And oh the BOWEL movement. CAN'T FORGET THAT.

Any where from 8:30-10pm she will fall asleep, but this is after numerous reassurances.

I am trying but I am getting ready to quit. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

Any ideas?

Linda

Last modified: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:43 PM | Linda

Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:11 PM

Reply # 249406 on 248925

Deleted user

Hi Linda. I reckon your approach is good but if its not currently working the way you expected it to, so probably you can give the steering wheel to the little one and follow her lead for a while. See how her own schedule works for both of you. Yeah it can get really frustrating but eventually you'll see a pattern you can work with. And about the bowel, perhaps if she's not crying and complaining about it while asleep just let it stand there until she wakes up. Just get out of the room and don't even check! :-D

Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:35 AM

Reply # 249631 on 248925

Deleted user

I wonder if she gets enough energy out of her? My son is almost at 18 months, and the days that he doesn't get to run around wild and free, he doesn't want to sleep at all. On days that we do activities - he sleeps very well. Overstimulation is not a solution, but sometimes letting our little one actually get tired will do the trick.

With regards to filling the diapers - we had similar "sleep obstacles". I absolutely refuse to let Liam sleep with a soiled diaper. I'll actually take him while sleeping from the crib and change him (sometimes he won't even wake up).

I then realized that he has a bowel movement about 1 1/2 hrs after his last meal and a full bottle. So now I give it to him 2+ hours before, wait for the diaper change, and he sleeps... like a baby! :)

Last modified: Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:35 AM | Deleted user

Friday, November 27, 2009 12:49 AM

Reply # 249815 on 249406

Linda

Nina Sy wrote:Hi Linda. I reckon your approach is good but if its not currently working the way you expected it to, so probably you can give the steering wheel to the little one and follow her lead for a while. See how her own schedule works for both of you. Yeah it can get really frustrating but eventually you'll see a pattern you can work with. And about the bowel, perhaps if she's not crying and complaining about it while asleep just let it stand there until she wakes up. Just get out of the room and don't even check! :-D

I think I will give both of us a break for now and focus on completing the weaning first. With regards to the soiled diaper, I can't let her sleep with it. It is not healthy. In addition, she has had a history of urinary tract infection, so changing the soiled diaper is my preference as well as a must.

Thanks for the info.

Linda

Last modified: Friday, November 27, 2009 12:49 AM | Linda

Friday, November 27, 2009 12:59 AM

Reply # 249819 on 249631

Linda

Julie / wrote:
I wonder if she gets enough energy out of her? My son is almost at 18 months, and the days that he doesn't get to run around wild and free, he doesn't want to sleep at all. On days that we do activities - he sleeps very well. Overstimulation is not a solution, but sometimes letting our little one actually get tired will do the trick.

With regards to filling the diapers - we had similar "sleep obstacles". I absolutely refuse to let Liam sleep with a soiled diaper. I'll actually take him while sleeping from the crib and change him (sometimes he won't even wake up).

I then realized that he has a bowel movement about 1 1/2 hrs after his last meal and a full bottle. So now I give it to him 2+ hours before, wait for the diaper change, and he sleeps... like a baby! :)

This is something that we have come to realize. I try my best to get her physically active, but this is getting harder and harder with the weather getting colder as well as raining. In addition, I am so exhausted from lack of sleep, that I find I don't have the energy all the time to keep up with her as well as find creative ways to keep her busy on the rainy days. She definetly is an outdoor child. My husband has the car for the day, so it is not as if I can take her to the mall all the time. In the summer was better. I would take her to the park and let her run around, climb, and etc. during the day and then my husband will do the same early evening. This did work.

Maybe now that I am giving the sleep training a break for now, I can resume to search for ways to keep her active.

Thanks for the info.

Linda

Friday, December 04, 2009 1:26 PM

Reply # 252971 on 248925

Celia

I have a 16 month old daughter who just doesn't require much sleep. Perhaps your child is the same. If your daughter wakes up around 7-730am, she's probably not tired around 1130am for a nap. Try pushing lunch until 1130-45am, then a little play to digest her meal and have a bowel movement and then try nap time around 1230-1pm. I suspect that she doesn't go down easily at bedtime is because she's overtired from not having a nap when she really is tired. Once her naps are better you should noticed her sleeping habits at night improve as well.

I also haven't let my daughter cry it out, and she rarely sleeps through the night. For awhile she was up 1-2.5 hours during the night. But daddy started going in to lay her back down and sooth her and after a couple of nights, she started to sleep thourgh the night again.

My daughter is usually up around 6-630 am, naps around 12-1230 pm for 1.5 hours then it's bedtime at 730pm and that works for her. Some of her "friends" get up later and nap for 3 hours, it's just different personalities. You just have to find what works for your daughter and you!

Hope this helps a bit.

Last modified: Friday, December 04, 2009 1:26 PM | Celia

Friday, December 04, 2009 3:40 PM

Reply # 253017 on 248925

Winer

I agree with Celia, I think her nap is too early, especially for a child that clearly does not require loads of sleep. When my DD's went to 1 nap, it was usually around 2pm or so. I know that is a tad late, but maybe try playing around with naps a bit later...I would not even try until at least 1pm unless she is obviously tired. You said she usually finally falls asleep for her nap between 1-2 pm, perhaps that is because she does not need to nap until then?

Kudos to you for not CIO, I too will never do it. I did find when both my daughters went through phases of very bad sleep The No Cry Sleep Solution helped a lot.

Saturday, December 05, 2009 10:51 PM

Reply # 253434 on 248925

Antonella

Hi there,

My daughter is a lot younger than yours, but she is a terrible napper. She has always slept through the night (for the most part) but has never slept during the day. I've found that lately, I've managed to get her to sleep when she "tells" me she's tired. I try to get her exhausted through playing and fresh air (yes, it IS so much harder now that winter's pretty much here). She sets her own schedule and in letting her do so, she has fallen into her own daytime nap routine and sleeps well at night. There are days where she has two really good naps, and days where she naps for 20 minutes or not at all. On the days where she doesn't nap, I always make sure (if possible) that we spend the next day entirely at home so that she can catch up and snooze better in her crib. This seems to be working.

I'm glad you don't let her cry it out - I don't agree with that method. If she starts howling after I put her down, I take her out of the crib and bring her back downstairs to play for another 20-30 minutes. Then I try again. 99% of the time, this works. I don't want her to think her crib is a place of punishment. I also totally agree about changing her diaper. It's not only disgusting to leave them in a dirty diaper, but as you mentioned, it can lead to so many UTI's and other infections that can damage the kidneys, colon, and bladder (especially for little girls).

Leave her to set her own schedule for a while and see what happens. Sometimes kids want to stay up because they think they're missing something. Once they see that everything stays the same no matter what time it is, they usually go to bed at a reasonable hour. My daughter's bedtime has been 10pm since she was born. It's what she likes and what works best for her. It makes my life easier too, so I've never pushed her to change it. She sleeps anywhere from 9-12 hours a night. And if she has nights where she wakes up and can't be consoled back to bed, I will bring her to my room to co-sleep like we did when she was younger. The next night, she always sleeps well in her own crib. I think it's better to re-assure them than let them cry; they need to know we're there for them and feel secure. No baby should be left crying for hours in their crib. They won't ever want to go to sleep if they know that they'll be left alone in the dark.

Last modified: Saturday, December 05, 2009 10:51 PM | Claire (Administrator)

Monday, December 07, 2009 4:43 PM

Reply # 254128 on 248925

Claire (Administrator)

Hi Linda,
I noticed that you said you "can't" do the 'cry it out' method, not you choose not to , which would imply that you feel guilty about it because you think it's a bad method or that it might hurt your daughter. I would recommend that you pick up a few books from the library about the different types of sleep training method and then choose which one will work best for you, your daughter, and your family. Every child is different so what works for one child may not work for Hope.

There is a lot of confusion about the CIO method. This method can also be very gentle. No where does the method call for leaving your child in the crib to cry for hours! It's supposed to be a very, very gently structured approach.

eg. The first night, you can leave the room for 2 to 5 five minutes and keep going back at the intervals. make sure you use a watch and if you choose 2 minutes, go back in every two minutes, stay for 30 seconds, let your daughter know it's bedtime, do a quick nappy check and then leave the room, keep going in at this interval until she falls asleep.

obviously that is not the whole method, just an idea that the even though the name is Cry it out... it does not mean that you leave your daughter for hours to cry.

I would like to point out that I did use the "No cry sleep method" when Katelyn was younger and she did still cry. Realistically, there is no sleep solution where the child will NOT cry.

Now obviously, you've gotten to the point where you are feeling sleep deprived and you feel that you and your daughter need more sleep. So, go to the library and get the following books. There are different methods depending on your parenting style, but I would get a few different books so you can make an informed decision based on the correct sleep training techniques.

The most important thing to remember about trying a new sleep training method is that you need to know how to properly do it. so that's why it's important to get the books and really understand the method before trying it. Once you've found the method you want to use - Be Consistent!

The books are:
Attachment Parenting Styles
Elizabeth Pantley - The No Cry Sleep Solution
Dr. Sears - The Baby Sleep Book

In the middle:
Tracy Hogg - Secrets of the baby whisperer
Marc Weissbluth - Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child

Ferberizing:
pediatrician Richard Ferber - Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems

I read all of them, and I used more the middle approach.

One more thing, when you are doing sleep training, try to do it on the weekend so that your husband can help and you can rest during the day.
Good luck my dear :-) I wish you more sleep with less tears.

-Claire

Last modified: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:43 PM | Claire (Administrator)

Monday, December 07, 2009 4:52 PM

Reply # 254133 on 253434

Claire (Administrator)

No baby should be left crying for hours in their crib. They won't ever want to go to sleep if they know that they'll be left alone in the dark.

Hi Antonella,
I completely agree with you that no baby should be left crying for hours in their crib, but just want to clarify that the CIO method does not call for this. I know a lot of people get confused with the method b/c of the name. When I first heard the term I thought so too and I thought, "oh my goodness" how awful, but once I did my research I realized that this is not what the method calls for.

Going crazy with sleep training

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